The Street > The Lounge
Gay Marriage
ginger:
--- Quote from: Han Solo on July 02, 2015, 05:54:53 PM ---I mean shit, you need an minister who is ordained through a religious institution to marry a couple.
--- End quote ---
No you don't.
U-238:
--- Quote from: Han Solo on July 02, 2015, 05:54:53 PM --- If you gave gay people the same benefits of married couples but called it something different than marriage I don't think religious people would give a shit nearly as much. . . . . I feel like most people who are for gay marriage don't see this side of the debate and the amount of religious bashing and in tolerance of peoples beliefs i've been seeing is ridiculous. Its all about tolerance.
--- End quote ---
Social union ideas have been tossed about but the fact was that people were still not giving it as much credence as marriage. Marriage is in the law, social unions are not. Plus, nobody thinks a social union is anywhere near as meaningful as a marriage.
That is a problem.
And where is exactly are you seeing the gays lash out at religious people? And are you really implying that gay people are less tolerant than religious people? Really? Gay people just want to get married.
The bible literally has about a thousand more things to say about how terrible divorce is. How many devout religious people have gone through that, and still think gays are going to destroy that holy sanctity of marriage? The bible also says consuming shellfish is a sin, so you can bet I get a laugh down here in Louisiana when the Catholics are sucking down tons of crawfish at boils during lent. Funny how no one is up in arms about these. . . .
--- Quote from: Han Solo on July 02, 2015, 05:54:53 PM --- For most religious people its not about pushing their religious beliefs on others or equality as it is about preserving a biblical definition.
--- End quote ---
This should not matter in the least. If you want to be religious and believe in the idea of marriage between a man and a woman, go ahead. You want to believe homosexuals are doomed to hellfire? No problem. No one cares. No one is going to force you to marry the same sex. No one will force you to change your views, because no one really cares what you think. It just doesn't matter. You could think the moon is made of fucking cheese or that the first woman was made from the rib of a man, it won't change a single thing anywhere in the universe.
Start pushing your ideas on other people, that is wrong, and that is where people have issue. You can believe whatever you want, but when you start pushing beliefs, you are wrong. That is why people have problems with religion.
nwcstn:
--- Quote from: condrbkr on July 02, 2015, 06:11:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: Han Solo on July 02, 2015, 05:54:53 PM ---Let me start off by saying I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I think the issue for most religious people is that they think it is not the governments job to redefine what they see as a status that originated with religion and Adam and Eve. Separation of church and state thing. I think it's less about rights and more about redefining what they see as a religious term. I mean shit, you need an minister who is ordained through a religious institution to marry a couple. I think what it really comes down to is the benefits that the government gives to married couples. If you gave gay people the same benefits of married couples but called it something different than marriage I don't think religious people would give a shit nearly as much. For most religious people its not about pushing their religious beliefs on others or equality as it is about preserving a biblical definition. I feel like most people who are for gay marriage don't see this side of the debate and the amount of religious bashing and in tolerance of peoples beliefs i've been seeing is ridiculous. Its all about tolerance.
--- End quote ---
What makes marriage's definition bound to a biblical thing though? You can't own a word. It may have started with a different meaning but you can't enforce a meaning when the world around you is changing it.
Take idiot. It was once a scientific term for people with exceptional mental handicaps. People throw that word around like it's nothing anymore, cause quite frankly it is nothing.
The N-word is another one. The black community has changed the perception of the meaning of the word drastically. It's still a hot word to say but it's not a strict racial epithet it used to be.
To people who see marriage as a man and woman. It'll always be that way. To people who see it differently. They'll always see it their way. The government's job is to side with the majority of people and in this case no one is truly discriminated. It's not like straight marriage is now outlawed. Hell, there is a Japanese dude who married an online character from a video game, to him marriage is that too. No one may recognize it as real but that ain't gonna change his views.
--- End quote ---
This is why I said I don't have a problem with it. I already understand that. Just pointing out the religious side that people don't seem to get.
Prodigal Son:
--- Quote from: U-238 on July 02, 2015, 07:19:58 PM ---
Start pushing your ideas on other people, that is wrong, and that is where people have issue. You can believe whatever you want, but when you start pushing beliefs, you are wrong. That is why people have problems with religion.
--- End quote ---
That's pretty much the issue of this. This issue is being pushed one way or the other.
I don't know why it can't exist in an intelligently communicated idea, pertaining to what Ginger quoted. Get married anywhere else but a church that doesn't support it. I somehow doubt that a couple wants to get married in a church that has a longstanding view of homosexual marriage.
I might be the token hook line and sinker Christian on the board. Despite that, I was married in a court building in my city without much mention of god at all. Writing that I feel very unfortunate. Back to the point, you can be married before the state in a non religious institution. Communicate this and I think things could be made easier.
LukeTom:
--- Quote from: Han Solo on July 02, 2015, 07:20:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: condrbkr on July 02, 2015, 06:11:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: Han Solo on July 02, 2015, 05:54:53 PM ---Let me start off by saying I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I think the issue for most religious people is that they think it is not the governments job to redefine what they see as a status that originated with religion and Adam and Eve. Separation of church and state thing. I think it's less about rights and more about redefining what they see as a religious term. I mean shit, you need an minister who is ordained through a religious institution to marry a couple. I think what it really comes down to is the benefits that the government gives to married couples. If you gave gay people the same benefits of married couples but called it something different than marriage I don't think religious people would give a shit nearly as much. For most religious people its not about pushing their religious beliefs on others or equality as it is about preserving a biblical definition. I feel like most people who are for gay marriage don't see this side of the debate and the amount of religious bashing and in tolerance of peoples beliefs i've been seeing is ridiculous. Its all about tolerance.
--- End quote ---
What makes marriage's definition bound to a biblical thing though? You can't own a word. It may have started with a different meaning but you can't enforce a meaning when the world around you is changing it.
Take idiot. It was once a scientific term for people with exceptional mental handicaps. People throw that word around like it's nothing anymore, cause quite frankly it is nothing.
The N-word is another one. The black community has changed the perception of the meaning of the word drastically. It's still a hot word to say but it's not a strict racial epithet it used to be.
To people who see marriage as a man and woman. It'll always be that way. To people who see it differently. They'll always see it their way. The government's job is to side with the majority of people and in this case no one is truly discriminated. It's not like straight marriage is now outlawed. Hell, there is a Japanese dude who married an online character from a video game, to him marriage is that too. No one may recognize it as real but that ain't gonna change his views.
--- End quote ---
This is why I said I don't have a problem with it. I already understand that. Just pointing out the religious side that people don't seem to get.
--- End quote ---
I agree with this, but have been called homophobic so many times that I have stopped saying it. I just have a problem in having the government involved in church is a slippery slope to start on. Saying this I don't disagree with gay marriage per se, just that the government shouldn't interfere with the church/what ever religious institution. But I know how you guys feel about religion sooo...
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