Gay Marriage

[Cole]

I gotta make it out to pride week some time. I hear it's an absolute riot, a friend of mine goes every year and she can't say enough good things about it.

[blueee]

on a tangent, folsom street fair is pretty bitchin.

[LukeTom]

Was in Barcelona for all the gay pride stuff. City is very homosexual friendly, so naturally there was all sorts of leather attire down Las Ramblas

[weedbix]

Is there anyone on Bg who is actually bummed about this?

[JFax]

Is there anyone on Bg who is actually bummed about this?

I assume that at least one will be bummed after a male gay wedding. Bum bum - tisssss.

[U-238]

The most fucked up thing I have been hearing about this gay marriage ruling is that it "opens the door" for pedophiles (and others like this) to get the same "rights" as gays. Really makes me mad. Homosexualism and heterosexualism are between two consenting adults. Pedophilia, one of the parties 1) is not consenting or 2) cannot legally give consent. Big difference there.

It is super fucked up.

The other fucked up shit is that with the ACA and gay rights being in SCOTUS (and SCOTUS doing a damn good job on both) and with the confederate flag bullshit, everyone has forgotten all about the underhanded shit going on in the government right now/recently (an even shittier version of the Patriot Act going through, TPP being fast-tracked, etc.).

What does that mean for people who don't know what the amendments are?

I'm sure that you know that the US Constitution is the highest law, so everything we do must be in line with the intent of the text (not the interpretation of the text, as some politicians like to think).

The 10th Amendment reads: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."

This means that if the Constitution doesn't specifically give power to the Federal government on an issue, the States are responsible for that issue. All 50 states have the authority to handle these issues as they see fit, and can handle them in 50 different ways if each state so chooses.

The 14th Amendment is a long one, but the passage of Section 1 applied in this case states: "... No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States... nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The Supreme Court ruled that this passage of the 14th trumped the 10th in this case. This logic, now written as Case Law, can be legally applied in future cases where any person feels that a State's law denies them equal protection and can override State law.

It will be interesting to see how this case law is applied in the future.

I don't think it will be that big of a deal. This same argument comes up every time something "new" gets added to the constitution. You know there were people bitching about slavery not being in the first 10 Amendments, so maybe that should have stayed a state issue. Or if inter-racial marriage was still against the law. These are clear denials of human rights.

[Prodigal Son]

Being soft and 30 I use facebook. There was this image analogous to troops in Iwo Jima but gay dudes raising a rainbow flag. All the right wing people are so upset about a comparison to veterans. There has been a lot of homosexual discrimination that resulted in many deaths of gay dudes. I wish they made a civil war version too. 

[Cole]

^^^^^ I thought that picture was funny. I got a laugh out of it.

[nwcstn]

Let me start off by saying I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I think the issue for most religious people is that they think it is not the governments job to redefine what they see as a status that originated with religion and Adam and Eve. Separation of church and state thing. I think it's less about rights and more about redefining what they see as a religious term. I mean shit, you need an minister who is ordained through a religious institution to marry a couple. I think what it really comes down to is the benefits that the government gives to married couples. If you gave gay people the same benefits of married couples but called it something different than marriage I don't think religious people would give a shit nearly as much. For most religious people its not about pushing their religious beliefs on others or equality as it is about preserving a biblical definition. I feel like most people who are for gay marriage don't see this side of the debate and the amount of religious bashing and in tolerance of peoples beliefs i've been seeing is ridiculous. Its all about tolerance.

[condrbkr]

Let me start off by saying I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I think the issue for most religious people is that they think it is not the governments job to redefine what they see as a status that originated with religion and Adam and Eve. Separation of church and state thing. I think it's less about rights and more about redefining what they see as a religious term. I mean shit, you need an minister who is ordained through a religious institution to marry a couple. I think what it really comes down to is the benefits that the government gives to married couples. If you gave gay people the same benefits of married couples but called it something different than marriage I don't think religious people would give a shit nearly as much. For most religious people its not about pushing their religious beliefs on others or equality as it is about preserving a biblical definition. I feel like most people who are for gay marriage don't see this side of the debate and the amount of religious bashing and in tolerance of peoples beliefs i've been seeing is ridiculous. Its all about tolerance.

What makes marriage's definition bound to a biblical thing though? You can't own a word. It may have started with a different meaning but you can't enforce a meaning when the world around you is changing it.

Take idiot. It was once a scientific term for people with exceptional mental handicaps. People throw that word around like it's nothing anymore, cause quite frankly it is nothing.

The N-word is another one. The black community has changed the perception of the meaning of the word drastically. It's still a hot word to say but it's not a strict racial epithet it used to be.

To people who see marriage as a man and woman. It'll always be that way. To people who see it differently. They'll always see it their way. The government's job is to side with the majority of people and in this case no one is truly discriminated. It's not like straight marriage is now outlawed. Hell, there is a Japanese dude who married an online character from a video game, to him marriage is that too. No one may recognize it as real but that ain't gonna change his views.

[ginger]

I mean shit, you need an minister who is ordained through a religious institution to marry a couple.

No you don't.

[U-238]

If you gave gay people the same benefits of married couples but called it something different than marriage I don't think religious people would give a shit nearly as much. . . . . I feel like most people who are for gay marriage don't see this side of the debate and the amount of religious bashing and in tolerance of peoples beliefs i've been seeing is ridiculous. Its all about tolerance.

Social union ideas have been tossed about but the fact was that people were still not giving it as much credence as marriage. Marriage is in the law, social unions are not. Plus, nobody thinks a social union is anywhere near as meaningful as a marriage.

That is a problem.

And where is exactly are you seeing the gays lash out at religious people? And are you really implying that gay people are less tolerant than religious people? Really? Gay people just want to get married.

The bible literally has about a thousand more things to say about how terrible divorce is. How many devout religious people have gone through that, and still think gays are going to destroy that holy sanctity of marriage? The bible also says consuming shellfish is a sin, so you can bet I get a laugh down here in Louisiana when the Catholics are sucking down tons of crawfish at boils during lent. Funny how no one is up in arms about these. . . .

For most religious people its not about pushing their religious beliefs on others or equality as it is about preserving a biblical definition.

This should not matter in the least. If you want to be religious and believe in the idea of marriage between a man and a woman, go ahead. You want to believe homosexuals are doomed to hellfire? No problem. No one cares. No one is going to force you to marry the same sex. No one will force you to change your views, because no one really cares what you think. It just doesn't matter. You could think the moon is made of fucking cheese or that the first woman was made from the rib of a man, it won't change a single thing anywhere in the universe.

Start pushing your ideas on other people, that is wrong, and that is where people have issue. You can believe whatever you want, but when you start pushing beliefs, you are wrong. That is why people have problems with religion.

[nwcstn]

Let me start off by saying I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I think the issue for most religious people is that they think it is not the governments job to redefine what they see as a status that originated with religion and Adam and Eve. Separation of church and state thing. I think it's less about rights and more about redefining what they see as a religious term. I mean shit, you need an minister who is ordained through a religious institution to marry a couple. I think what it really comes down to is the benefits that the government gives to married couples. If you gave gay people the same benefits of married couples but called it something different than marriage I don't think religious people would give a shit nearly as much. For most religious people its not about pushing their religious beliefs on others or equality as it is about preserving a biblical definition. I feel like most people who are for gay marriage don't see this side of the debate and the amount of religious bashing and in tolerance of peoples beliefs i've been seeing is ridiculous. Its all about tolerance.

What makes marriage's definition bound to a biblical thing though? You can't own a word. It may have started with a different meaning but you can't enforce a meaning when the world around you is changing it.

Take idiot. It was once a scientific term for people with exceptional mental handicaps. People throw that word around like it's nothing anymore, cause quite frankly it is nothing.

The N-word is another one. The black community has changed the perception of the meaning of the word drastically. It's still a hot word to say but it's not a strict racial epithet it used to be.

To people who see marriage as a man and woman. It'll always be that way. To people who see it differently. They'll always see it their way. The government's job is to side with the majority of people and in this case no one is truly discriminated. It's not like straight marriage is now outlawed. Hell, there is a Japanese dude who married an online character from a video game, to him marriage is that too. No one may recognize it as real but that ain't gonna change his views.

This is why I said I don't have a problem with it. I already understand that. Just pointing out the religious side that people don't seem to get.

[Prodigal Son]

Start pushing your ideas on other people, that is wrong, and that is where people have issue. You can believe whatever you want, but when you start pushing beliefs, you are wrong. That is why people have problems with religion.

That's pretty much the issue of this. This issue is being pushed one way or the other.

I don't know why it can't exist in an intelligently communicated idea, pertaining to what Ginger quoted. Get married anywhere else but a church that doesn't support it. I somehow doubt that a couple wants to get married in a church that has a longstanding view of homosexual marriage.

I might be the token hook line and sinker Christian on the board. Despite that, I was married in a court building in my city without much mention of god at all. Writing that I feel very unfortunate. Back to the point, you can be married before the state in a non religious institution. Communicate this and I think things could be made easier.

[LukeTom]

Let me start off by saying I don't have a problem with gay marriage. I think the issue for most religious people is that they think it is not the governments job to redefine what they see as a status that originated with religion and Adam and Eve. Separation of church and state thing. I think it's less about rights and more about redefining what they see as a religious term. I mean shit, you need an minister who is ordained through a religious institution to marry a couple. I think what it really comes down to is the benefits that the government gives to married couples. If you gave gay people the same benefits of married couples but called it something different than marriage I don't think religious people would give a shit nearly as much. For most religious people its not about pushing their religious beliefs on others or equality as it is about preserving a biblical definition. I feel like most people who are for gay marriage don't see this side of the debate and the amount of religious bashing and in tolerance of peoples beliefs i've been seeing is ridiculous. Its all about tolerance.

What makes marriage's definition bound to a biblical thing though? You can't own a word. It may have started with a different meaning but you can't enforce a meaning when the world around you is changing it.

Take idiot. It was once a scientific term for people with exceptional mental handicaps. People throw that word around like it's nothing anymore, cause quite frankly it is nothing.

The N-word is another one. The black community has changed the perception of the meaning of the word drastically. It's still a hot word to say but it's not a strict racial epithet it used to be.

To people who see marriage as a man and woman. It'll always be that way. To people who see it differently. They'll always see it their way. The government's job is to side with the majority of people and in this case no one is truly discriminated. It's not like straight marriage is now outlawed. Hell, there is a Japanese dude who married an online character from a video game, to him marriage is that too. No one may recognize it as real but that ain't gonna change his views.

This is why I said I don't have a problem with it. I already understand that. Just pointing out the religious side that people don't seem to get.

I agree with this, but have been called homophobic so many times that I have stopped saying it. I just have a problem in having the government involved in church is a slippery slope to start on. Saying this I don't disagree with gay marriage per se, just that the government shouldn't interfere with the church/what ever religious institution. But I know how you guys feel about religion sooo...