currently salmon is worth more than crude oil

[Liam]

Kinchy, how isn't this obvious to you? It's obviously a plot. Global warming is just a MYTH, that is peddled to you morons who don't pay attention to what's really going on. Ash-ridden air so thick you can barely breathe or see six inches in front of you has no impact on anything whatsoever, except they make the chemtrails visible if you're not a sheeple and have the Smoggles they sell in the survivalist shop that is run by that guy who's definitely not a deranged neo-Nazi. Barack HUSSEIN Obama has been planning this all along. Didn't you see him at COP21? They don't even pretend that they're not trying to act like the world police and tell me whether or not combusting a carbon-based finite resource to my heart's content is clever or not when there are multiple alternatives available. The Czech Republic were there. Bit funny, no? Seeing as they've started injecting methane gas into kittens just because the communists are rebuilding in Austria and they signed a deal that means salmon imported from Indonesia must travel through ISIS territory: http://www.madcrapontoast.batshit.wordpress.com/boxoffrogs


So you go ahead and recycle your plastic bottles because the GOVERNMENT want you to and I'll just sit here burning wood for the sake of it and trawling Twitter for pictures of a truck in Benghazi that has a logo on it that's a bit similar to one a gas company used to have. Don't come running to me when Hillary Clinton bombs Fiji again and you have to survive on "fluoride" water the CIA invented when they were trying to bring Ronald Reagan back to life because he had the keys to Saddam's launch codes for the weapons that Palestine have hidden in the oil wells at the Bush Ranch. http://www.dailymail.com/dianawaskilledbybadgerswithTB

[alaskun]

Ash-ridden air so thick you can barely breathe or see six inches in front of you has no impact on anything whatsoever

the only time it's EVER like that is in the summer, which has absolutely nothing to do with woodstoves.

thanks for playing though

[ginger]

Wood stoves are ridiculously inefficient and should be phased out. You're a numpty.

[Hank Chinaski]

I gotta side with Alaskun on this one. While burning natural gas might be better that says nothing to the earth-ruining extraction methods, carbon footprint from the supply lines, ruining pristine lands with pipelines, not to mention the massive fucking leak in California. People are evacuated, kids having health problems, unknown environmental damage. Just because it's clean and easy at your house doesn't mean it's a clean fuel. Compare that to someone who owns their land, cuts and seasons their own lumber, replants lumber (which actually adds something), and warms their own home for free.
It's like fucking rain barrels in Colorado. They're illegal. The bullshit reason: The water belongs to everyone and you can't steal your neighbors water. Real reason: We want you to buy the water from us instead of collecting it for free.

[Narcoleptic Insomniac]

Salmon is delicious.

[ginger]

I gotta side with Alaskun on this one. While burning natural gas might be better that says nothing to the earth-ruining extraction methods, carbon footprint from the supply lines, ruining pristine lands with pipelines, not to mention the massive fucking leak in California. People are evacuated, kids having health problems, unknown environmental damage. Just because it's clean and easy at your house doesn't mean it's a clean fuel. Compare that to someone who owns their land, cuts and seasons their own lumber, replants lumber (which actually adds something), and warms their own home for free.
It's like fucking rain barrels in Colorado. They're illegal. The bullshit reason: The water belongs to everyone and you can't steal your neighbors water. Real reason: We want you to buy the water from us instead of collecting it for free.

The rain thing is ridiculous, the wood stove thing is not so ridiculous. I see your point re; fossil fuel extraction but if we all reverted back to wood stoves instead of LNG we would be in a much worse position. Ideally, we should ramp up small-scale renewable installations and use an electric stove to have clean air and negate fossil fuels.

[alaskun]

Salmon is delicious.

I disagree so hard...

Just because it's clean and easy at your house doesn't mean it's a clean fuel. Compare that to someone who owns their land, cuts and seasons their own lumber, replants lumber (which actually adds something), and warms their own home for free.

THIS

also, there was a 7.something earthquake the other night and  ~4 homes burnt down because of the ruptured gas lines, which they were forced to accept/pay for whether they wanted them installed or not.

Even at their best estimates, the natural gas, when it eventually is all installed/available, is still going to cost more than everything else.  People still have to convert/adapt their homes. They're encroaching on/destroying peoples' properties to bury the pipe, raising taxes, and forcing a more expensive system up our asses, before they even have the logistics settled on, and it's going to be very expensive, and a very negative/destructive experience for a lot of people...


lol tinfoil hat though, right...

[ginger]

What town do you live in?

[Hank Chinaski]

I gotta side with Alaskun on this one. While burning natural gas might be better that says nothing to the earth-ruining extraction methods, carbon footprint from the supply lines, ruining pristine lands with pipelines, not to mention the massive fucking leak in California. People are evacuated, kids having health problems, unknown environmental damage. Just because it's clean and easy at your house doesn't mean it's a clean fuel. Compare that to someone who owns their land, cuts and seasons their own lumber, replants lumber (which actually adds something), and warms their own home for free.
It's like fucking rain barrels in Colorado. They're illegal. The bullshit reason: The water belongs to everyone and you can't steal your neighbors water. Real reason: We want you to buy the water from us instead of collecting it for free.

The rain thing is ridiculous, the wood stove thing is not so ridiculous. I see your point re; fossil fuel extraction but if we all reverted back to wood stoves instead of LNG we would be in a much worse position. Ideally, we should ramp up small-scale renewable installations and use an electric stove to have clean air and negate fossil fuels.

But no one is saying everyone has to revert back to wood stoves.  Just that the people who want to use them and not rely on someone else for their heating should be able to do so. I agree with everything you're saying otherwise.  The only other thing I'll add is that electricity goes out, especially in rural areas with bad weather (aka Alaska) and then you're running a gas generator to power that electric heater.  Power goes out with a wood stove you're still in business.

[alaskun]

What town do you live in?

fairbanks. the earthquake was further south

http://www.newsminer.com/news/alaska_news/kenai-families-lose-homes-in-earthquake/article_020d7b3c-c3b6-11e5-8a64-c7fe2f03d6cd.html

KENAI, Alaska - Vincent Calderon and Carrie Gaethle had just gotten their two children back to bed after being shaken awake by a 7.1 magnitude tremor that rocked the Kenai Peninsula Sunday morning when their house exploded into a mass of blue flames.

"As soon as we got the kids back to sleep, probably about 15, 20 minutes after the earthquake ... it felt like we came a foot off the ground," Calderon said. "The back wall flew off the house, the floors blew off."

..The couple's house on Lilac Lane in Kenai was the first of two that were destroyed by gas explosions and one of four that ended up being burnt to the ground following the earthquake and a gas leak in the area.

The only other thing I'll add is that electricity goes out, especially in rural areas with bad weather (aka Alaska) and then you're running a gas generator to power that electric heater.  Power goes out with a wood stove you're still in business.

bingo

There have been more/longer winter power outages in just the past 3 years than in the 15 I've lived here.  Not having a woodstove means frozen/burst waterlines and dead people.

[ginger]

Right, you're in the boonies. I see your problem with infrastructure now, so I'll change my stance to "mostly agree".

[Kinchy]

Only because Hank came in and used actual sentences to explain what the issue was.

Where does salmon fit into this and what scale are we using to compare the cost of oil with the cost of salmon?

[ginger]

1 salmons = 1 burnout.

[streetStreet]

Was it caused from fracking or salmon feeling the cost of oil tilting the land mass and causing the earthquakes

[ediotism]

i came into this thread expecting a discussion on oil prices and possibly salmon dishes. instead i'm completely lost.