A question to frame vendors/repair shops regarding Standard bykes custom

[Louis]

The only thing I have a problem with is standard getting the frame back and them saying it's straight/true or fine or whatever. With just that little explanation?

What are their (standard 'byke' co) tolerances/specs on this exact situation?

It's the first sentence in the OP!... how does TpeHep not have a direct answer to this question from Standard themselves?!

Am I wrong in thinking you really don't need a professional frame builder to use measuring tools coupled with a flat counter top? Or something that basic DIY, to properly 'prove' your point? Not a damn camera ALONE. You need both the picture/video with the PROPER MEASUREMENTS IN the said pic/vid, a proficient professional confident in their skills wouldn't hurt though. (any good welder? 'engineer'? machinist even?) Do these pictures exist we just haven't seen them?

Was a refund in any form discussed? (if the frame is so fine to them they should be able to re-sell?)
Since you're 'stuck' with it have you ridden it?
Did I miss where you are from?

An 1/8 ain't shit

We still don't have a REAL measurement, that was visual. and 1/8" = 3.18 mm which is out of G's suggested 'specs'. Is that what you would expect for a ~$600 welded frame? be it on your bicycle? Or what if it was a motorcycle frame? I don't have enough experience building this type of stuff but I will certainly ask those I know who do. How about if he was professionally racing BMX? When does it become acceptable?

IMHO it seems acceptable for a bicycle... but I could go either way since we are supposed to be talking about some of the finest welded 4130 in BMX. Not just any bicycle...

$$$.$$

[streetStreet]

You might wanna pick your vagina up off the floor and try out the frame.

.2, bud, .2.

[TpeHep]

The only thing I have a problem with is standard getting the frame back and them saying it's straight/true or fine or whatever. With just that little explanation?
...

This bothers me most of all as well (especially due to fact Rick suggested to check frame alignment in person), and is also main reason for the topic - which was intended to clarify things in first place, not to complain about Standard (i don't like doing that really).

They didn't give me their allowed dimension error when i asked (nor other direct answers for my questions). Generic/common amount of allowed precision error still remains shady too.

Pics are just for illustration, you can see issue with bare eye, there's not much point in precision measuring, it's obvious frame isn't very useful. I was certainly considering building some validation device, but i have work and other stuff to do. Box was fine both of times, needless to say.

Thanks to everyone who bothered to post so far - as it looks that most of reasoned opinions (both here and from locals) suggest this is unacceptable, i've mailed frame back for second time few days ago and am waiting for some possibly interesting news now..

[master]

The only thing I have a problem with is standard getting the frame back and them saying it's straight/true or fine or whatever. With just that little explanation?
...

This bothers me most of all as well (especially due to fact Rick suggested to check frame alignment in person), and is also main reason for the topic - which was intended to clarify things in first place, not to complain about Standard (i don't like doing that really).

They didn't give me their allowed dimension error when i asked (nor other direct answers for my questions). Generic/common amount of allowed precision error still remains shady too.

Pics are just for illustration, you can see issue with bare eye, there's not much point in precision measuring, it's obvious frame isn't very useful. I was certainly considering building some validation device, but i have work and other stuff to do. Box was fine both of times, needless to say.

Thanks to everyone who bothered to post so far - as it looks that most of reasoned opinions (both here and from locals) suggest this is unacceptable, i've mailed frame back for second time few days ago and am waiting for some possibly interesting news now..

If the frame actually measures out of spec (not an eyeball/camera measurement)... I would hope that the interesting news is a refund.

[Alice Glass]

should have gotten an STA...I mean a Sunday frame

[skateparkrider]

This bitch right here is dialed, all around.  I got the frame completely raw, no clear coats or anything.  You can really get a good look at craftmanship and quality.  I'm no welder geek, but the welds do look really clean.  But I am a bike geek.  And I can tell you I eyeballed every single part of this frame, inside and out.  It is dialed. 

[skateparkrider]

everyone saying just to suck it up or "its just bmx anyway" is blowing my mind. There is not any excuse for parts being way off spec in general, but the fact that it is custom and cost him at an absolute minimum $550 makes it way worse. If you spent that much money on a TV and it only played in black and white, would you just shrug it off? Of course not. Some of you make it sound like he's complaining about a cup of lemonade being too watered down from a 1st grader's drink stand in the summer time. You guys must have some nice jobs to be able to drop $550 and have it not matter what you get in return. I love Standard and I think Rick is super rad, so it bums me out to hear this story. Of course there is always two sides to a story and the truth most often lies in the middle...

"So let us not casteth judgmenteth unless thall shalt heareth both sides of the story."   

Ruben 41:30, Church of Joe Rich of Ramperday Saints

Peace be with you

[Prodigal Son]

If I somehow continue to not portray the destitute BMX scum bag, I definitely want another standard. Already miss it riding this barcode.

[skateparkrider]

I loved my Barcode in a special way.  I just swapped out frames to the STA a few weeks ago.  After not living in Iowa for almost 10 years I really just felt the urge to get an STA when I moved back home.  So I did, but with a few mods. 

[metalbmxer]

so how long has the op not been riding while waiting to get a frame repaired that is maybe 1 degree off? i can't see any serious rider taking off that amount of time due to something they'd never even feel. I mean just look at how most riders have their back wheels in the dropouts: cocked to one side for chain tension or just bc it always tightens up that way. I mean really now....

[G]

so how long has the op not been riding while waiting to get a frame repaired that is maybe 1 degree off? i can't see any serious rider taking off that amount of time due to something they'd never even feel. I mean just look at how most riders have their back wheels in the dropouts: cocked to one side for chain tension or just bc it always tightens up that way. I mean really now....

That seems like a harsh attitude. OP hasn't posted in nearly a month so maybe it all got sorted, but having ridden a frame that was very bent in the past for an extended period I can attest that you definitely feel it and if you pay top dollar for it you WOULD be pissed.


G.

[metalbmxer]

so how long has the op not been riding while waiting to get a frame repaired that is maybe 1 degree off? i can't see any serious rider taking off that amount of time due to something they'd never even feel. I mean just look at how most riders have their back wheels in the dropouts: cocked to one side for chain tension or just bc it always tightens up that way. I mean really now....

That seems like a harsh attitude. OP hasn't posted in nearly a month so maybe it all got sorted, but having ridden a frame that was very bent in the past for an extended period I can attest that you definitely feel it and if you pay top dollar for it you WOULD be pissed.


G.

hmmm i can see your point G, and i have read your analysis on frame geo extensively through each and every one of your tech articles. But wasnt it you who was saying that NO frame is perfect and is in fact allowed a certain degree of variance in each and every angle and dimension?

[TpeHep]

Well.. nothing interesting happened so far so no good reason to post. I've sent frame back on April, 22nd, and didn't hear
from Standard in like 3 weeks since then.. they didn't reply to couple of mails i sent them by that time. Last week I've asked my friend to write them, so that email is different, initially asking for prices and then telling hello from myself and suggesting to talk via customer service and such. They were very fast to respond with prices, took a few minutes.
After that Jess mailed saying they have no news to share with me. I've dropped another mail today, no reply.

It's not like i can't ride, my bike is fully set up with current frame which i ride for about 5-7 years, there's no problems with it.
And there's always wife's bike to take for a spin too

Frame welds did appear really fine to me as well, and frame would be great indeed, if only put together properly..
Pretty much every BMX frame I've seen had some minor thing here or there, it can't be perfect, but this one is just too much.

[LeonLikesToRock]

Just ride it attitude is all good when you haven't forked out and waited for a custom frame. I've got a custom that has crooked as fuck break mounts. Sent it back, then got it back with brakes crooked as fuck in the other direction. Still, at least I could ride that brakeless. I was pissed, they were pissed. We both lost money and time. Sucks that both parties lose out but I did everything that was expected of me, paid punctually and waited (for several months longer than quoted). They fucked up by not controlling the quality of their product. It is their fuck up.
I don't get why people are defending the builder and having a go at the customer.

[G]

so how long has the op not been riding while waiting to get a frame repaired that is maybe 1 degree off? i can't see any serious rider taking off that amount of time due to something they'd never even feel. I mean just look at how most riders have their back wheels in the dropouts: cocked to one side for chain tension or just bc it always tightens up that way. I mean really now....

That seems like a harsh attitude. OP hasn't posted in nearly a month so maybe it all got sorted, but having ridden a frame that was very bent in the past for an extended period I can attest that you definitely feel it and if you pay top dollar for it you WOULD be pissed.


G.

hmmm i can see your point G, and i have read your analysis on frame geo extensively through each and every one of your tech articles. But wasnt it you who was saying that NO frame is perfect and is in fact allowed a certain degree of variance in each and every angle and dimension?

Yes. But...

There has to be a limit to the acceptable variation. If you can "eyeball" a frame and it looks obviously bent or twisted then it is probably out by more than the 0.25 or 0.5 of a millimeter that would be "reasonable" for a high end frame. Its amazing how many people DO ride around on bent/twisted frames, look around a skatepark and you will often see one or two, and when those riders replace them with new straight ones they will often need a little while to adjust, which can be very frustrating. But if you are paying top dollar you shouldn't have to accept it feeling like a hammered old beater.


G.