Looping Out/Trails

[Travis Bickle]

I’m 5’7”, riding a 20.5 frame. I’ve lengthened my chain stay length recently yet, for some reason I’m still landing back-end heavy every time I ride trails, especially when I try to tuck for height. I’ve tried to correct this consciously while riding, but it’s still happening.

Do I need a longer top tube? I feel comfortable on my bike, but it feels twitchy in the air, almost sketchy.

Current frame is a Fit VH3. 74.5 HT, 13.75 CS, 11.7 BB & 20.5 TT.

Thanks

[Narcoleptic Insomniac]

Longer stem/lower bars maybe?

[Travis Bickle]

I tried lower bars. I swapped out my Credence 8.7 rise for Grand Slams 8.25 but it didn’t really help much

[weedbix]

Another idea along the lines of longer stem/TT, lower bars would be a lower BB too

Having said that, I wouldn't rule out technique, particularly if you find yourself touching down further down the landing. A lot of people new to trails or who have hard crazy crashes early on have an automatic apprehension of nosing landings. Part of the reason I hate doing airs on a quarter still to this day is that I had a few hard nose cases (and have the chipped teeth to match) on a dirt quarter I used to ride. When I got the chance to ride real trails in the 90's I was quite concerned about it, particularly because trails got bigger and steeper and were gnarlier than the jumps at the local race track I was used to. To help allay this I learnt to nose bonk smaller tables - basically you intentionally dip the front end on the way over so that your front wheel rolls along the top a bit, and then you lift it up again quickly before the landing. Maybe, if apprehension is your caper, that might help

[nwcstn]

One thing I've found technique wise is doing a quarter crank forward when I feel like I might to loop out. This gets your front foot low to the ground putting all your weight on the one foot will lower your center of gravity considerably and can often be the little bit that's needed to Lee you from looping out. I dunno might be all in my head but it's saved quite a bit, give it a try and see how it works for you.

[Bunky]

So, I'm absolute shit at riding trails, but have a pretty good understanding of bicycle geometry.  There's a number of different things geo wise that could help you out, but I would say the most substantial is going to be BB height. 

A lower bottom bracket is going to make it harder to pull the front end up, but will also make looping out less likely. 

You could go for a longer rear end or top tube as well, or a combination of all of these things.  Do you have any friends with other frames sitting around that you could ride and compare? 

[rich]

20.5 / 13.75 is pretty short for trails.

I am about the same height as you and riding 21/14.1/74 with a big front tyre and a skinny rear to slacken things up even more.

Most folk at ours ride at least a 21.25, in fact I believe I am the only 21.

The sketchyness you describe is almost certainly too short a bike.

Look at a modern trails frame like a credence or deluxe and you'll see lots of super low bb heights, slacker head angles, long back ends and longer top tubes.

A cool thing I've noticed about a longer bike is you can get away with massive bars, which allows more rooooooast.....!!! As the whole thing needs more leverage to pull up and get near the "looping out" point, making everything bigger gives you finer control over the bike.

Anyway I have finished doing my poo now so I will sum up and say get a bigger trails frame with 9" bars and pull up more.

[weedbix]

He's 5'7"...