Automotive Hotness 4.0h

[DougDebonet]

sheep pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one.
while you can make a fwd car powerslide/drift on dry asphalt, you have to be going pretty fast.

with a rwd/awd(depending how the drivetrain is set) you can drift at a much lower speed by using the popping the clutch into a turn or handbraking.

[-MEAT-]

Sliding isnt the be all and end of driving, 90% of drivers can drive 90% of roads, as fast if not faster in a front wheel drive car, as they can in a rear wheel drive.

[Aesop Rock]

Tokyo drifting everywheeerrreeeee.

[Louis]

RWD is just more fun to me when you take a corner a little too fast in the wet and boom you're sliding whether you want to or not a lot of the time, what happens when you do that with a FWD and try to power through?

Nothing but understeer comes to mind.

[-MEAT-]

If you have any car control then probably a decent 4 wheel drift. Rwd is amazingly good fun, but the general difference between the two isnt exactly massive any more.

[ron_weasley_T1]

RWD is just more fun to me when you take a corner a little too fast in the wet and boom you're sliding whether you want to or not a lot of the time, what happens when you do that with a FWD and try to power through?

Nothing but understeer comes to mind.

Not if you actually know how to control a front wheel drive car, Take some lock off and nail it. Taking the lock off stops/reduces understeer and nailing it pulls you out of the slide.

Granted RWD is more fun at slower speeds. But should you really be sliding it around a public highway?

[icanthrowaFIT]

If you have any car control then probably a decent 4 wheel drift. Rwd is amazingly good fun, but the general difference between the two isnt exactly massive any more.

I'd take the fwd on the streets over rwd just from past experience.  If you do get a little throttle heavy in FWD you will push rather then having to control a potential spinout. There is nothing scarier then fishtailing when you aren't trying to. Powering out of a nice 4wd drift in the FWD is great fun, as much as fishtailing a RWD. The worst part of FWD is the negative social stigma that it's worthless.

[sheepdog]

I've had both. They are both fun, but my front drive turbo car is a hell of alot more fun then my older camaro. This is also because its set up to handle the power , full bushings, coilovers, solid mounts etc. I can outlaunch my old camaro in this thing, granted i didn't have much suspension work in the camaro. Turbo car also has around 260-280 to the wheels vs. camaros' NA 350 putting down 230-250. The nice thing is i still get a hell of alot better gas milage when cruisin vs. the V8.

You are comparing a heavily modded car to a stock BOAT.
What do you expect.

This is the problem I have with so many of the import guys...
You so quickly start comparing stock to heavily modded.

[sheepdog]

I'd take the fwd on the streets over rwd just from past experience.  If you do get a little throttle heavy in FWD you will push rather then having to control a potential spinout. There is nothing scarier then fishtailing when you aren't trying to. Powering out of a nice 4wd drift in the FWD is great fun, as much as fishtailing a RWD. The worst part of FWD is the negative social stigma that it's worthless.

What you are doing, you shouldn't be doing on the street.

However, try driving a decent RWD like BMW. A well setup rwd car will not suddenly just spin out (unless it is rear engined). A well setup car will give you lots of warning before coming around and be very easy to bring back, IF you are driving properly. Pushing is only marginally safer in a car that was setup right, and I don't mean adding a bunch of crap to tune it. My BMW could be tuned with tire pressure even with stock suspension.


FWD isn't worthless, its a grocery getter system. It was used because it is safe, easy, cheap and efficient (lightweight low friction for fuel economy reasons). It was not intended for performance and no matter how good you make it, you always have that handicap.

[icanthrowaFIT]

You are comparing a heavily modded car to a stock BOAT.
What do you expect.

This is the problem I have with so many of the import guys...
You so quickly start comparing stock to heavily modded.

it was a moderately modified lightened sport model. Don't pin me as an import only dude. For one i still drive an american car, and two i like everything and anything. I still have to defend what I currently ride because people are ill informed. So in this case of course I'm going to be biased towards the FWD setup because it's what I'm driving now, and what everyone is bashing.

[icanthrowaFIT]

What you are doing, you shouldn't be doing on the street.

However, try driving a decent RWD like BMW. A well setup rwd car will not suddenly just spin out (unless it is rear engined). A well setup car will give you lots of warning before coming around and be very easy to bring back, IF you are driving properly. Pushing is only marginally safer in a car that was setup right, and I don't mean adding a bunch of crap to tune it. My BMW could be tuned with tire pressure even with stock suspension.


FWD isn't worthless, its a grocery getter system. It was used because it is safe, easy, cheap and efficient (lightweight low friction for fuel economy reasons). It was not intended for performance and no matter how good you make it, you always have that handicap.

You have to keep in mind that RWD was the only thing out for decades of performance. Now that FWD is becoming popular you will see that change. Granted Top Fuel and such will always be dominated by RWD. FWD can and will continue to catch up and rank with RWD in almost every racing aspect. All the FWD technology is still relatively young.

However, I will continue to like ALL setups. As you said they all have their own ups and down and that's why i wish to own a few cars and exploit the benefits of each setup. One huge bones to FWD is the minimal amount of drivetrain loss. AWD has the obvious traction advantage but loses alot of steam in drivetrain loss. RWD has the traction advantage, not so much as AWD but gives up less drivetrain loss. The only thing I'm trying to do is point out that FWD ISNT useless in racing even though you also think not.

None of this should even be debatable as we all know the end winner is $$$$. Whoever puts the most of it into whichever platform is going to win. (AND DRIVER) (My dream ride is a porsche, can't go any more opposite rear engine rear drive then FWD, I'm not into choosing one style for life)

[Infinity man]

What you are doing, you shouldn't be doing on the street.

However, try driving a decent RWD like BMW. A well setup rwd car will not suddenly just spin out (unless it is rear engined). A well setup car will give you lots of warning before coming around and be very easy to bring back, IF you are driving properly. Pushing is only marginally safer in a car that was setup right, and I don't mean adding a bunch of crap to tune it. My BMW could be tuned with tire pressure even with stock suspension.


FWD isn't worthless, its a grocery getter system. It was used because it is safe, easy, cheap and efficient (lightweight low friction for fuel economy reasons). It was not intended for performance and no matter how good you make it, you always have that handicap.

e30 rear suspension designs were not the best...Even though i know you love(d?) your e30.

[mm_mitch]

Japanese really dont give a fuck


VZ-R N1, similair story to the Peugeot Rallye's except Nissan's version. 200bhp 1.6 from factory.


My N1

[Aesop Rock]

Glass is over-rated anyways.

[sheepdog]

it was a moderately modified lightened sport model. Don't pin me as an import only dude. For one i still drive an american car, and two i like everything and anything. I still have to defend what I currently ride because people are ill informed. So in this case of course I'm going to be biased towards the FWD setup because it's what I'm driving now, and what everyone is bashing.

This is also because its set up to handle the power , full bushings, coilovers, solid mounts etc

Moderately modified? That is not even CLOSE to stock suspension.
Throw that same amount of stuff at a Mustang and it has quite the steering potential as well. RWD cars, particularly American ones are notorious for building in TONS of oversteer on purpose due to good old Nader.

You have to keep in mind that RWD was the only thing out for decades of performance. Now that FWD is becoming popular you will see that change. Granted Top Fuel and such will always be dominated by RWD. FWD can and will continue to catch up and rank with RWD in almost every racing aspect. All the FWD technology is still relatively young.

None of this should even be debatable as we all know the end winner is $$$$. Whoever puts the most of it into whichever platform is going to win. (AND DRIVER) (My dream ride is a porsche, can't go any more opposite rear engine rear drive then FWD, I'm not into choosing one style for life)

First of FWD was out prior to the 1900's. It's not new. Cord used it heavily in the 30's and many race teams tried putting it into normal racing circles (throwing huge amounts of money into it) and it got it's ass handed to it. The only reason it does as well as it does is because of modern technology giving it a push. It does not compete one on one with rear wheel drive except instances where strict rules give it an advantage or it gets a bit lucky.

Now that FWD is becoming popular it will change, doubtful.  It will become more and more popular in club racing because they are cheap and more plentiful than rwd cars because manufacturers built a ton of them. The clubs will slowly either handicap the rwd cars more, or the older rwd cars will just simply become dated. This is exactly what happened with the RX7.





You guys can play up fwd all you want. It's a handicap, no matter how you slice it. Not to mention they suck to work on. Buy one and do a clutch, trans swap, or a final gear swap, screw that. Steering rack? Yeah good luck on some of them. I hate working on the damn things, it's always a hassle.

I have yet to see any real benefit except in slippery conditions like ice and snow where they can accelerate better. However a well balanced rwd car will do almost as well.
 
So why own one again? oh that's right, they're cheap.
Read back to how the whole import/fwd scene got going, it wasn't because they saw some great potential in fwd, it was because they couldn't get rwd cars.